66 Connection

VIDEO: dinner for former APBA employees Skeet Carr and Veryl Lincoln, part 4

Part 4:  Skeet and Veryl tell some of their favorite APBA stories.  Both Skeet's and Veryl's stories involve crossing - or almost crossing - Dick Seitz.  The voice at the beginning is Scott Lehotsky.

Part 1 here

Part 2 here

Part 3 here

Deal with an APBA legend + get a bargain = WIN

I got a package in the mail yesterday that I was not expecting.  Those are my favorite kind!  Especially when I saw the return address was longtime APBA employee Veryl Lincoln.  I opened the package to find this:

It was a very clean, very nice 1950R APBA card set.  Veryl wrote to me offering to sell a group of these, since he knew I used to buy and sell APBA collections.  Instead, I offered to help him sell them himself.  Here is what he wrote - see below for how you can buy one.

"Fran, enclosed is a set of 1950[R] player cards.  I have assembled sets from the 'un-gathered extras' that had been printed in addition to the complete sets of cards in 1984.

"It was standard procedure during Dick Seitz's reign to have these un-gathered extras printed in addition to any complete set that was being produced, so there would be a separate source for individual replacements for any fan missing a card or cards from a set they had purchased.  That would save us from breaking apart a complete set to provide the replacement(s).

"When Fritz (Light) sold the Millersville Road building in 1999, and we were moving the entire APBA operation to the third floor, space limitations made these cards expendable; they were going to be thrown out.  Instead, I took them home, intending one day to sell them once the sets of cards were sold out...which happened, finally, last year.

"I'm asking $22 per set plus $6 Priority Mail shipping.  Of course, I have lineup sheets for the sets."

Here is how you can buy one:  Send a check or money order for $28, made payable to Veryl Lincoln, to him at 505 Church Street, Lancaster, PA 17602, and he'll send you one.  No Paypal, no credit cards, just good old-fashioned checks and money orders.

You get to deal with an APBA legend, and get a bargain in the process.  That's what I call a WIN!

1973 APBA convention: audio highlights now available!

In 1973, the APBA Journal promoted the first APBA convention at the Bellvue Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia.  Over 200 attendees heard from a lineup of baseball and APBA speakers, and played a LOT of APBA. 

After the convention, the APBA Journal released a record of audio highlights. In the fifteen years I have been buying and collecting APBA memorabilia, I had never seen one.  I didn't even know they existed until a few years ago, when I was preparing the APBA Journal for sale and saw references to the record in old AJs (I didn't start APBA until 1977 and I didn't get an AJ until '80, so this was before my time).

Then I purchased a collection last summer and there it was.  A copy of the record, in the original sleeve and stiffener, right out of the package.  It had probably never been played until a friend of mine converted it to a digital format.

And now you can hear it.

The record included:

Side One (9:15)
Ben Weiser
Dick Seitz
Thatcher Longstreth
Dave Ouellette

Side Two (9:23)
Dave Ouellette
Len Gaydos
Interviews with unidentified convention attendees

You can hear a sample of the record at the bottom of this post.

Full disclosures: 1) the audio quality is not so hot.  Portable recording equipment in 1973 was expensive and low quality compared to what we have now.  The audio is listenable, but I don't advise trying to listen in your convertible with the top down going 75 miles an hour. 2) Dick Seitz's portion is very, very short; I don't want you to expect some long speech by him.  His part is about 20 seconds long.

I am selling this CD with the permission of the owner of the APBA Journal.  The price is $9.99 delivered anywhere in the US.  If you are outside the US, please contact me directly instead of using the automated payment system below.

APBA  Journal Convention '73 CD

Payments are processed through Paypal, but you do not have to have a Paypal account to buy.  If you don't have a Paypal account, please choose the option to choose to pay as a guest.

A sample of what you'll get:  AJ publisher Len Gaydos introducing the door prize drawing on Saturday morning, June 16.

Aj_record_sample

Some great questions about the future of the APBA company

A comment from Ron Santo (who I assume is not the real Ron Santo) on my post with the photos of APBA's departure from Lancaster to Alpharetta, GA:

"I've been an on-and-off APBA player since the 1970's and have lived in Alpharetta, GA since 1998. I find it quite ironic that the mythical Lancaster operation of my youth should migrate to northern Metro Atlanta in a single, average-sized moving van.

"Here's my question: Why is APBA moving to Alpharetta? What is left of the once mighty game company? Will they be manufacturing new games? Will they be releasing new card sets (particularly baseball)?

"Anyone with answers, please enlighten those of us long 'out of the loop'."

Ron, welcome aboard!  I hope you continue to read this blog and participate.  Here are the answers to your questions:

1) I, too, note the irony of the image of one big van moving everything.  I am told that not everything John Herson wanted to move from Lancaster to Alpharetta made it on the van, so there is more than one van's worth.  However, a lot of the material on the van was fixtures (shelves, computers, etc.) so that's not a van solely loaded down with cases of vintage card sets.  In fact, the inventory of card sets they have left is pretty much all stuff that is left over from the 1970s and 80s.

The perception that the company was "once mighty" is an interesting one.  A former APBA official told me once that in their supposed heyday, in the 1970s, the company sold about 10,000 new baseball sets every year, and about 7,000 XB sets; and baseball was about 70% of the business.  If you do the math - I believe season sets retailed at about $12 to $15 in the early to mid 70s - the business was never as big as we all thought it was.

2) APBA is moving to Alpharetta because John Herson bought the company from a venture capital firm several years ago.  He announced July 28th that the company would move to Alpharetta.  He lives in the Alpharetta area.

3) What is left of the company depends on your view of what existed of the company before.  The company as Dick Seitz knew it has not existed for a long time.  The links of continuity to the Seitz era were Veryl Lincoln and Skeet Carr.  After the move to Georgia is complete (ie the truck arrives and is unloaded in Alpharetta) Veryl will no longer be an APBA employee.  Skeet will continue as a part-timer, working from Lancaster by correspondence.

APBA Hall of Famer Roy Langhans is organizing a send-off for Skeet and Veryl, and taking contributions for a gift to them.  It is not too late for you to contribute.

4) Whether they will continue to release new games is up to John Herson.  The last game he introduced was soccer, this summer, and according to an account from the APBA convention this summer, the company sold just 210 soccer games (although the post on the APBA Between the Lines board that stated that seems to have been removed).

5) The question about the new cards is the best question of all.  There is some question about the nature of the relationships John Herson has maintained with the people who contracted with the company, and how those relationships have been cultivated.  The 2009 football card problems are one example.  The Between the Lines board was filled with stories of errors, problems, and quality control issues with the 2009 football card set.  Multiple sources have confirmed to me that the problems happened because Ron Mura, who has calculated both baseball and football cards for APBA for many years, was unwilling to do the 2009 football cards because of his perception of how he was treated by John Herson.  Mark Zarb, who previously calculated football cards for APBA but was served with a cease-and-desist order by John Herson about the same time Herson sued me, was understandably no longer willing to work on the cards either.  That left only Herson himself, and it appears that the job was much more complex than expected.

Thus many people are apprehensive about the ability of a newly-restructured company, with little of the old infrastructure in place, to create the cards, get them printed, promote them effectively, and fulfill the orders.  Having done it myself, it's a lot more complex than you would think, and much more time-consuming.

Regarding products the company has already announced: John Herson announced in late July that the company was switching to what he called "just-in-time" printing.  The first releases, 1960(2R) and 1964(2R), were supposed to be ready within several weeks.  These cards were not going to be new calculations, though; they were going to be re-releases of the sets APBA had put out within the last few years, but had sold out of.  As of this writing, those sets have not been released.  John Herson posted on Between the Lines that he was having trouble getting the card images printed correctly, and that the sets would be delayed.  However, that post also appears to have been removed.

John Herson did subsequently announce that 1957(3R) and 1962(2R) would be released in the same manner.  This announcement was greeted with some curiousity in APBA circles.  The 1960 and 1964 calculations are at least from within the past several years, so it would make sense that new calculations would not be necessary. 

However, the APBA formula has changed several times since the last release of 1957 (1994) and 1962 (1989).  The introduction of the hit adjustment ot the calculation of the cards, in the early 1990s, was the most revolutionary change to the calculation of the cards since double columns were added for the 1958 set.  But when he made the announcement, John Herson said the 1957 cards (which he mistakenly called 1957 (2R)) and 1962 cards would be the same as the cards released in 1994 and 1989 respectively, with only the addition of the (K) and (R) pitching ratings being added or changed.  Thus the 1962 set would be based on cards using a long-outdated formula.  Also, no indication was made of whether the pitchers deserving (ZZ) control ratings would receive them; the statement that only (K) and (R) ratings would be added would indicate the 1962 set will not have (ZZ) pitchers (the 1957 set released in 1994 came out after the ZZ rating was added, so that set would have them if appropriate).

An interesting sidelight: two sources have confirmed for me that rather than managing the data for the 1957 and 1962 sets electronically, John Herson borrowed sets of the 1957(2R) from 1994, and the 1962(R) set from 1989 from customers; photocopied them; and is overseeing manual data entry of the information from the cards.

When all of these pieces are added together, the apprehension of the APBA community about the future of the company is understandable.

Perspective vs. facts: APBA's move from Lancaster to Georgia

Rod Caborn of Florida posted an interesting comment on APBA's move to Alpharetta, Georgia on The APBA Blog:

"After reading all the posts bemoaning the changes APBA is undergoing, it might be prudent to think about what happens if Mr. Herson’s gallant effort to save the company falls short.

"While we all enjoy the game, we need to remind ourselves that APBA is a business. If the business fails, we’re all losers.

"The changes that Mr. Herson are instituting are likely necessary to keep APBA alive and kicking.

"Crying over the past is not going to help APBA’s future. I am surprised at the lack of positive input and suggestions expressed by gamers. All the hand-wringing is not the answer.

"As far as departing Lancaster, I applaud the change. Lancaster is an out of the way place that is hard to reach and, at least to me, locked into the past. The hotels are out of the 1960s and getting older. Lancaster might make a great shrine, but the world has changed since Dick Seitz introduced APBA in 1950.

"Atlanta has a lot more going for it than Lancaster, including access to new and different resources that could, in fact, be positive for APBA. And lots of better hotel rooms…and it’s easy to reach from anywhere in the U.S.

"I’ve played APBA since 1956 and, while it’s great to be nostalgic, the only certainty in life is change. The APBA community needs to adapt to the changes that are occurring and be as supportive as possible, in order that the game survives.

"One final thought: no one else but Mr. Herson has stepped forward and put his money where his mouth is. Talk is cheap…and, to the best of my knowledge, Mr. Herson is the only person who has gone through the trouble of putting together a business plan and investing money in APBA. More power to him. I am cheering for his success."

Rod's comments make a lot of sense.  But there are some facts that are different than Rod's perspective.

1) Just as Lancaster is not necessary for APBA to survive, The APBA Game Company is not necessary for APBA the game to survive.  I wrote in my very first post on this blog that there is a difference between APBA the game and APBA the company.  Avalon Hill quit making Status Pro cards, and yet the game is arguably more vibrant than ever, because two, three, or more people make cards for the game every year.  It's easy to imagine the same thing happening when competition can thrive again in the APBA world.  I would argue that "if the business fails, we’re all losers" is exactly the opposite of the facts.  If the business fails, APBA fans will get more choices than they have now.  I play the game because it's fun, not to support some nostalgic idea of what a game company meant to me 30 years ago.  Playing with official APBA cards is fun.  Playing with cards I've created is fun.  Playing with Skeetersoft cards Bill Staffa makes is fun (it took a little getting used to the different play results though).

2) I agree that the changes that John Herson is making are probably necessary to keep the company alive.  I think what caused the hue and cry among fans is the way in which those changes were presented.  The biggest of those was, that the employees in Lancaster didn't know anything about the move at the convention, just days before the move was announced.  Yes, change happens.  But making that change as easy as possible is key to bringing along your constituency.  That didn't happen here, and many fans felt the cut was not only clean, but jagged and rough.

3) Ragging on Lancaster right after decrying the lack of positive input from gamers struck me as rather ironic.  I'm not qualified to speak on the merits of Lancaster because I grew up in the area, love the place, and so am admittedly biased.  But I can't imagine every hotel room in Lancaster is old and moldy as Rod argues.

4) Atlanta is indeed easier to reach than Lancaster.  Hartsfield Airport is one of the busiest (if not the busiest) airports in America.  But APBA's new location is more than 45 minutes from Hartsfield, according to this Google map.  And John Herson has stated that APBA will not do over-the-counter sales, nor have any other retail interface with customers - mail-order only.  That's fine - I didn't encourage over-the-counter sales when I sold APBA-compatible sets.  But the whole location discussion becomes moot if there is no personal interaction with the people at the location.

5) The idea that "the APBA community needs to...be as supportive as possible, in order that the game survives" is only true if you believe the official company is the only legitimate way to get products for the game.  I imagine Clifford Van Beek, the creator of the National Pastime game on which Dick Seitz based APBA, didn't think Seitz's products were legitimate.

6) "No one else but Mr. Herson has stepped forward and put his money where his mouth is."  That part is true.  A number of companies and individuals looked at APBA's books when the company was for sale by the venture capital group from whom John Herson bought it.  I personally know two of them - both very successful business people.  All the sellers that looked over the at-least four years the company was for sale passed.  One told me the business model as it existed was "hopeless."  This from a person who I knew personally for over 30 years; with whom I played in an APBA league 20 years prior to this conversation: and who founded, operated, and then sold a very successful business, similar to APBA, that he still manages for the company to which he sold.

7) "Talk is cheap…and, to the best of my knowledge, Mr. Herson is the only person who has gone through the trouble of putting together a business plan and investing money in APBA."  That may be true; I doubt that, if he has put together a business plan, he has shown it to anyone, so we don't really know if he has put one together.  He may be running it by the seat of his pants, for all we know.  But as I outlined above, he's not the only person who has looked into running APBA.

Please help the send-off for APBA employees Veryl Lincoln, Skeet Carr

I got the email below from APBA Hall of Famer Roy Langhans.  If you have had the opportunity to know Skeet Carr and Veryl Lincoln of APBA, even just by dealing with them by phone or email, you know they are quality guys who have represented the best about APBA. 

Skeet and Veryl have been with APBA since the 1960s, and provided the "good cop" to Dick Seitz's "bad cop" when it came to dealing with the customers.  I've been around both men many times, and they epitomize the kind of personal service that companies don't seem to care about any more.  They are passionate about the game and protective of the people who play it.  If you wonder about that, ask Veryl about his replays sometime.

These guys are not going to be destitute when their employment at APBA ends on Friday.  But this is a great opportunity to say "thanks" for the great service they've provided to all of us over the years.

Roy wrote:

"Please view this email as an announcement, not a solicitation.  I don't do solicitations very well.

"Many of us have desired to find a way to express to Skeet and Veryl our thanks for their friendship and the outstanding APBA service they have provided us for 40 years or more.  In many ways, they have been APBA to us.

"Idea Man (aka Mr. Lehotsky) has suggested that we collect some money to . . .

--permit Veryl to purchase a computer so he can readily keep in touch with us (and, not incidentally, keep his game-playing statistics), and

--help Skeet save for inevitable education costs for his toddler grandchild, who lives with the Carrs.

"Our goal is to collect $1000 for each of them.  Eight guys (in addition to Scott and me) willing to contribute $200 each would readily achieve that goal.  Anyone wishing to participate at a lower level is, of course, also welcome.

"As suggested in the opening sentence above, nobody should feel pressured to participate.  Did I say I don't do solicitations very well?

"If you wish to participate, please send me a check (Roy Langhans, 10 Ferrous Court, Cockeysville MD  21030) made payable to me.  I will notify those participating how much we have collected, and, of course, their name will be included with the presentation to Skeet and Veryl.

"We plan to deliver the donations to Skeet and Veryl at a September lunch or dinner.  Anyone wishing to attend - whether you donate or not - should let me know.  We would be thrilled to have you join us.

"My hope is that we can wrap this up within three weeks or so."

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Roy is one of the good guys in this community, and he's demonstrating it again by coordinating this effort.  Scott Lehotsky also deserves some credit for not only this, but all the work he's done for creating a real APBA community, and connecting the present and future of APBA with its past.  More on that in future posts.

Please send Roy some money.  $10 isn't too much, and even that much will help Roy reach his goal.  Roy's model is right - 10 guys at $200 each will do it - but 50 guys at 40 bucks each gets it done too.  And with Scott and Roy each in for $200, the goal is only $1600.  Two guys at $800 wraps it up too.

How much has the great service you've gotten from Skeet and Veryl been worth to you over the years?  This is how you can show the value you place on what you've gotten.